A bar of 5/4 has one more beat than you are used to, and that one beat is where most odd-time grooves fall over. Played well, 5/4 does not feel odd at all. It just feels like it leans. The trick is knowing where the weight goes.

This post covers how to count 5/4, two simple ways to place the backbeat, and a played groove from Prog Metal Grooves in 5, shown note by note.

In this post:

• Counting five
• Where the snare goes
• A played groove in 5/4
• Making it feel natural
• Four common 5/4 mistakes
• Setting it up in your DAW
• Questions

Counting five

5/4 is five quarter notes in a bar. Counting “one two three four five” works, but it helps to hear the bar as two groups: a group of three and a group of two, in either order.

• 3 + 2: ONE two three FOUR five. Long, then short. This is the feel of most 5/4 you already know.
• 2 + 3: ONE two THREE four five. Short, then long. It feels like it trips forward.
• In eighth notes: ten eighths, grouped 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 (or any other way that adds up to ten). This is how many prog and metal riffs are built.

Which grouping is right? The one the riff uses. Listen for where the guitar starts each phrase and put your group starts there.

5/4 or 5/8?

5/8 is five eighth notes in a bar, half as long as a bar of 5/4. At the same tempo it feels faster and tighter. The counting ideas are the same.

Where the snare goes

In 4/4 the snare lands on 2 and 4. In 5/4 there is no single right answer, but two starting points work almost every time.

4 + 1

Play a normal 4/4 backbeat, then add one extra beat before the bar starts again. It is the easiest way in, because the first four beats feel familiar. The extra beat can be a kick, a hi-hat note, or nothing.

3 + 2

Put the snare at the end of each group: on beat 3 and on beat 5. The kick starts each group, on 1 and on 4. This follows the long-short shape of the bar and grooves hard once your ear catches it.

A played groove in 5/4

Prog Metal Grooves in 5 has 129 MIDI files: 100 grooves and 29 fills, in three tempo folders (120, 159 and 185 BPM). The grooves are named by what the hands play: 36 open hi-hat grooves, 22 crash, 20 closed hi-hat, 12 ride, 8 tom and 2 china. The grooves we opened carry a 5/4 time signature in the file itself, which some DAWs read when you import them.

Counted in eighth notes, the first bar puts the snare on 1, on the “and” of 2 and on 4: every three eighth notes, then a longer gap of four before the bar starts again (3 + 3 + 4). The kick fills the eighths in between and the cymbals move from crash to china across the bar. In the second bar the snare moves, so the two bars together make one longer phrase. That is typical of played odd time: the drummer thinks in phrases, not single bars.

Making it feel natural

1. Keep one thing steady. A constant hi-hat or ride in eighth notes gives the listener something to hold while the kick and snare move.
2. Accent the group starts. A slightly louder cymbal or kick on the first beat of each group tells the ear where it is.
3. Land fills on one. Start the fill so it ends exactly at the next bar. A fill that ends early is the most common way 5/4 falls apart.
4. Think in phrases. Four bars of 5/4 is a phrase, like four bars of 4/4. Put the crash at the start of the phrase, not every bar.
5. Lock the kick to the riff. In odd time the listener follows the guitar. If the kick agrees with it, the bar makes sense even if it is long.
6. Pick a tempo that lets it breathe. The three folders in the pack (120, 159, 185) feel very different; slower tempos make the grouping easier to hear.

Four common 5/4 mistakes

• Fills that end on beat 5. The ear hears the next “1” as a stumble. Count the fill back from the next bar line.
• Crashing every bar. In odd time a crash on every 1 makes each bar feel like a restart. Crash at the start of a four-bar phrase instead.
• A kick that ignores the riff. If the guitar groups 3 + 2 and the kick groups 2 + 3, the bar sounds wrong even when every note is in time.
• Too many ideas at once. Change the time signature or the groove, not both in the same bar.

Setting it up in your DAW

• Set the time signature to 5/4 at the bar where the section starts (and back to 4/4 where it ends).
• Set the tempo to the folder the groove came from. The MIDI files do not carry a tempo, so they play at your project tempo.
• Loop two bars, not one: as in the groove above, many played grooves are two-bar phrases.
• If a drum plays the wrong sound, it is the map, not the time signature. See drum MIDI mapping explained.

Questions

Is 5/4 an odd time signature?

Yes. “Odd time” usually means any bar that is not grouped in twos and fours, like 5/4, 7/8 or 11/8.

What are famous songs in 5/4?

Two well-known ones are “Take Five” by the Dave Brubeck Quartet, grouped 3 + 2, and the Mission: Impossible theme, usually counted as 3 + 3 + 2 + 2 in eighth notes.

Can I use a 5/4 groove in a 4/4 song?

Yes, for a section. Switch the time signature for that section only, and use a fill to move in and out so the change sounds deliberate.

Do you have grooves in 7?

Yes: Prog Metal Grooves in 7 is built the same way, and Prog Metal Volume 1 has more prog grooves.

Prog Metal Grooves in 5 has 100 played grooves and 29 fills in 5/4, at 120, 159 and 185 BPM, so you can write the riff and let the drums do the counting.